Letters From Home Podcast Episode 16-Jen Rough TRANSCRIPT—-
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But there’s a different type of grief because there’s a shock with it when it’s sudden and I suddenly grieve someone I never knew and my family around me grieved the person they knew and I was grieving my normal life. Everything around me was changing. Possibly going to prison, losing maybe my marriage. Will my Children be ashamed of me? Who am I?

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And now for the next episode of Letters from Home, sending encouragement to your doorstep by capturing the heartbeat of God’s people one story at a time. Today’s guests Pleasant childhood was interrupted by one awful year, which included an abusive relationship. Once freed and healed in time, she married and leaned into a joyous season of marriage, teaching and motherhood. Suddenly paused by a life altering accident, her life became broken. She takes us there right to the depths of her pain and threw her face and those around her, also to the depths of her hope, her joy and her ministry, which came out of it, which she now refers to as beautifully broken. Jen, I can Horst

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Jan thanks so much for letting me interview you today. When I first listened to podcasts a couple years ago, and I didn’t even know what a podcast was. I found a couple somehow stumbled upon your story. I was so moved by your story and all that Hud’s done in your life. And I know I

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told you this

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because that podcaster I wrote him a note and said, Tell this girl I’m praying for her. Please sitting move me to my core and I sent your episode. I’m not giving away the whole story yet, but I sent your episode toe all of my five out of eight Children who drive and said, Please listen to this. This story will move you and I have sent it to many of my friends. What God has done through your story has made such an impact. I just wanted to be able to get that to my listeners as well.

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Thank you. And here we are. You imagine how God

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works were just on different sides of the U. S. And then here we are now, almost two years. It will be, um I guess two years in July since I did that recording. So, yeah, tell us a little about your upbringing. Okay, so I was raised in Dallas, Texas. Lower middle class home. My mom and dad fell in love when they’re very young and a Lote

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after three months of dating.

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So they air that whirlwind romance that worked out because now they’re celebrating 45 years of marriage coming up. Love them both so much. I have one little sister and grew up in the very loving open home. So I mean that because neither of my parents are strong believers. My mind would say is a believer. But you know, that wasn’t like going to church and talking about belief systems other than you are expected to do the right thing. You know, honesty, integrity. Those things were very strong in our home, but so was love and kindness to all people. Diversity and exploring different religions and face was encouraged. Political views was encourage. Debate was healthy in my home. And so my rebellion was to really take advantage of that. And I went to all different face and explored all different churches and all different belief systems really questioned people who even were without faith. And thankfully I had some very strong women in my life that also would plant. See, it’s in my life and we would go every Christmas and Easter with my grandmother to church and we have our dresses, but I think more. It was a little Methodist search as a little, but it’s eventually where I was married and I was baptized in the Methodist Church on Easter Sunday when I was 16.

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And I think

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I appreciate that that it wasn’t traditional, even though I very much bring up our my own Children in the church. I really appreciate and take that into how I parent, making sure that they understand that I could tell them how I love Jesus and Jesus Israel till I’m blue in the face, but they have to experience it. So I talked more about those experiences and say, You have to experience this. You’re an age where I want you to experience this for you. You need to take what you learn, what you feel and make this your relationship with God. I credit my parents for that. It’s a

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little bit nontraditional bringing, but it was so loving

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and we had a great time. We didn’t have a lot of money, so start working was like 14 head worker people, please. Their firstborn so very strong willed. My parents would tell you very strong ruled, you know, that’s kind of the chill of childhood.

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And so you said you were baptize. Would you say that’s maybe when you gave your life to the Lord?

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No.

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I remember getting to go to a Christian camp where I had to save some of my own money and my parents let me dio That’s how they are. They really did. Yeah. Say to a 10 year old like I don’t really agree what you’re doing. I don’t agree with you as and I share it, but I’m going to support you and you and becoming your own person. And I’m pretty sure that that is one because I received a Bible and ask God to come into my heart about 10 because it was summertime. And remember July I remember I got Skittles. I

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mean, like, you know, a man kid,

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but I remember getting the Bible, and I had that Bible for a lot of years, and I received it for accepting Jesus. That’s like when they raise your hand,

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who does prayed that prayer and you raise your he end, and

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then they gave you a Bible and I got that Bible. Yeah, goods.

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What did your late teens and launching into adult

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later years in high school were a little challenging? My parents will tell you that everything was wonderful. Except the year I turned

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17 like the year 17 97. His very much remembered in my household. I had

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my first boyfriend, but we’re both students were both in the leadership.

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And I had said I didn’t want

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to date because I really knew the pressures that I saw other friends folding to, Of course, having sex out of mere engine drugs and just drama, you know, slept with this person, then with this person. And, you know, it was it was a lot. I mean, I remember just thinking, Wow, this is so I had decided to not have a boyfriend. And when I was 16 turning 17 this boy had asked me out and and I said, Well, he goes to church with this, but I told him, you know, I’m not really interested in going out. Just so you know, I don’t want a boyfriend. And then he was really sinking and said, Well, then will you tutor me

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in math? And I was like, Sure, I can help with tutoring

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in Really? That’s you know. Later he was like, I knew that that was the avenue, that that relationship became very impure and open the door of sex before marriage and controlling issues. And then it became threatening, and it became very damaging where I was keeping secrets from my family. Um, possessive, He he didn’t know how to handle his emotions either. And, you know, unfortunately, it became abusive from really quickly. I was like, night and day. And I think part of me felt like because I had lost my virginity that I now needed to marry him, that I’m stuck because once I marry him, then I’ll make this right.

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And this is

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just immature faith, you know, realizing that. Okay, once, once we’re back and right with God, then everything will be OK. Not realizing that I needed to stop the relationship, I needed to repent and close that door. Those are the things that it took a while for me to understand actually had to get really bad before I was ready. And to where I didn’t even recognize myself. I was lying to my parents all the time. That’s

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why I say that year, ever that year, where I

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just really became a different person. Even my friends said that I didn’t seem like the mama Bear and the person lighthearted toe where I didn’t know who was. I got very thin. Wasn’t eating, had bruises that I would say was from cheerleading. Things like that.

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No, not like on your

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face. He would gripped my arm. You know, grip my wrist. You know, things like that. Nothing like I don’t want you to put in your imagination some, um it was more words. And your mind. Yeah, he didn’t know how to handle his feelings. And we have invited the enemy. Honestly, that’s really what ISS We had invited the enemy into our relationship once we were, you know, sexual. It invited that into our relation to. So what’s interesting is I started praying at some point. Um, my senior year, probably about December January. We didn’t go to the same school, but we worked at the same place, so he could He knew my schedule. You know, all the things like I said. There’s some controlling issues and

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it takes a long time to figure that stuff out. Granny, I’ve

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got a boyfriend. This is

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accepting. It just took that

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right and I turned.

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So I knew that his parents loved awards.

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I was afraid to

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tell them I was afraid to tell my parents because then I’m showing that Christians can sit

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here. I am

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praying someday that for the salvation of my parents

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and then I’m gonna

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go. Oh, by the way, this family has raised their Children in the church, professed to be a Christian.

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I carried that. My greatest fear in life is disappointing. Someone tore. I turned them away from Jesus. It’s like one of my greatest fears that my behavior and my attitude and my actions would turn someone from Jesus. And so I protected him mainly because I wanted to protect my parents. I didn’t want to disappoint them, but I didn’t want to tell them that Here we are as hypocrites that you read about that. You talk about that I try to defend, and here I am one of them

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Any burden that you have your heart. I did because I carried it because I never wanted that story to make them more angry at Christianity and turn them from real. The true relationship with Jesus. And it was It was very heavy. And it was something I took on myself as

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a young believer because I had principles in me. But I still had this learning and growing and maturing in Christ and really, what his word is his word would have said No, you’re precious. You should stop this relationship or Pentti. He needs to repent of his own things. You need to repent of your own things. You need to separate. It’s okay to share our ugly. It’s OK to tell nonbelievers about your sin, because ultimately I died for those sins. I didn’t get that part at 17 18 you know, But

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I didnt do Nelson. I tell almost Stephan freedom. I’ll tell you all the things that will hurt my heart on my sleeve and hope it helps you.

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If you were saying that it got but enough where you were able to get out and

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I was I had to make a plan. So I remember going okay, Lord, I don’t even recognize myself in the mirror I remember crying and thinking I don’t recognize who this person is. At one point, I wanted to be a lawyer. I was strong and convicted. All the things I said I would never let happen to me. I was a feminist in my own mind, you know, like women’s rights. And, um, you know, making sure that we were, um no one should live into that domestic violence and

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have any don’t have a

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kid of all those things were so great. And then I was living it and I was lying to everyone, and I just didn’t know who I waas and I remember crying Amir and they like,

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Who are you? Where are you?

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I was like, Okay, Lord, I know what I need to do, but I have to have a plan. What’s interesting about that is I unintentionally was late Mr Shift at work and got fired. And we were working at the Nieman Marcus distribution Center where we both worked together. So he can you musket like I said. And I felt like, honestly, that was a huge blessing because eight cut one tie and it was like I needed little ties to be cut. When I got my new job, I was like, you know, he has no friends here. He’s not gonna be able. I went to

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Bath and Body works, you know? And

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what’s funny is I knew that that was a short term goal. And because once he knew that, that was where I was working. I kind of wanted another place in plan that he would not know that this is before cell phones. You know, I could easily not call him in, and I mean, so there was There was some hope in that to where I just needed to make some plans in place. We went to different schools, and I did. It was funny, assembled upon this candy shop job where they need an assistant manager. And I was like,

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Hey, I’ll take that

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for resume And I basically decided, Okay, it’s getting closer. I saw this door opening ironically, which is not ironic. I didn’t tell him about the job that was lining up. And a bunch

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of

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friends from work were like, Hey, um, everyone from the mall is going out to dinner after work. You know, a lot of people like teenagers that would meet each other. You know, work at the mall. What’s

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funny

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about that night is I didn’t know that there is this really great guy named Chris who was also going to dinner that night. Oh, and it’s right before Valentine’s Day and way had this. Really. So I called my boyfriend at the time, and I said, When

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people go to work, I

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mean, after work are going to eat Would you like to come? And he said verbatim, I don’t want to go out to eat with your lame friends.

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And I was like, already. Then I was already on

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my way out to where I was starting to see the light. E had already cried out to God. I was asking for God to give me the strength and the courage because, you know, to make this transition, I went to dinner with a bunch of people, and what I didn’t know is I was being set up. So the person right

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next to me sat next to me was Chris, and then I tried to go and pay for my dinner, and the waitresses like oh, the guy next to you pay for your dinner I was like family. A look of that kind of set up, All right, Something. I finally look around this guy and there’s probably

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a good eight people here at the table. I

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look over at him and said, Chris, that was so nice of you. I said that You realized I have a boyfriend, right? And he just and I just wanted a bold I just wanted to buy your dinner, you know? And I was like, Well, you thank you. You know, And we talked

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about faith. We talked about our family, We talked about his brothers and sisters, and I talked about my sister. We talked about East Texas because I had planned to go to East Texas Baptist. A bunch of people actually came back to my house to my parents home, and we all sat around the like, their formal living area

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talking, talking, talking, and I never even thought about. It was because of

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girls and boys, and we’re all seniors in high school, and we’re just chatting, chatting, chatting you before we know it. It’s like one AM. My parents were home and they didn’t mind, you know, he and I was like I remember when I said by him and I just moved Going Wait a minute.

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What? What was that in my heart? What was that in my heart? So this is the heartbreaker. I’m

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going to tell you, but But it was actually, like the perfect thing. So first thing in the morning, I get a ring and it’s my then boyfriend calling to tell me

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Good morning. And I love you And Happy Valentine’s Day e was like, Hi. And I was like, Hey, I need to tell you something that we did dinner last night with all those people and I need to tell you that there is something in my heart. I met this guy. He was Wait a minute, What’s happening? And basically I broke grab with my boyfriend Nailed the nail in the coffin Yes, on battle in time today at like eight o’clock in the morning till them ask that I love you. But I can’t tell you what this little flutter waas in my heart It’s so weird because I love you. But it was really weird. I had

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this. He’s like, I don’t want to hear anything else, and it really hurt his pride to where he was mad at me and left me alone.

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And I would

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have never playing that what it worked out because that next guy, Chris, he’s now my husband and we’ve been married for

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18 years. Four kids later. He’s my forever Valentine. It was funny because I think he you

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know, I talked to him later that day and

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he’s like, Oh, how’s your day going? I’m like, crying like, Well, I burger with my boyfriend and he’s like he’s like, Oh, that’s so sad. He’s like, Well, since you’re free, you wanna go out with me. It’s his birthday, but he’s a Valentine’s. Maybe he’s like, Well, I don’t have anybody to hang out with for my birthday. Oh, my gosh, things like that said,

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dancing around his living room, thinking

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We’re go for dinner, Right? So he took me to a movie and I hop, and later I was like, Did you playing with this? It was like

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much later, after dating for a while, and my parents loved him. He got along with my family and it actually took. Probably we had been dating a year before, I finally came forward and told him the mess I was in

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with the

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other boyfriend. I came forward and told my parents what I was keeping from

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them. What was their reaction?

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Nothing but love and support. And they fell in love with Chris is well,

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like he loved, you know, they love him

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and he loves them. I mean, you know, it was just so funny.

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You just knew from the beginning

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you early on, it was when we were

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babies, when we got married to be where we were 2122.

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The Lord has blessed you with such an amazing husband and family, and from all the pictures

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I see 100 Facebook

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and just interacting. It’s such a blessing. And I know that you’ve needed that because you have had a major life changing trial.

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Lots of Childs. I think that

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faith is a mess. All I really believe that and that God gives you small trials and lessons to learn,

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kind of like

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not wanting to share. You know what? I was going through? The hurt, my parents realizing that I went through that again. Here’s an adult. Everyone’s salvation is their own journey, not one person. So that fear that my action, my words, can really turn someone away. Honesty. I’m putting too much on myself. Whether that’s pride or the work of the Holy Spirit is what does the work in someone’s heart anyway. The authentic touching of someone’s heart is the connection that makes you go from religion to relationship anyway, to make it authentic. You can know that whole Bible and you don’t have a relationship with Jesus and he’ll turn and say, I never knew And so it can’t really be the work of anyone because most of time I feel like the times where we are the most broken or the most filthy or wretched stories. Whatever we’ve done wrong, those are the ones that can really connect to Hasidism. You study the Bible. There’s

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all these examples of adultery and murder and lying and Moses, David, all major people. When you study them, you can realize what they were really broken, that God used them in a season or forever

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because it’s documented and we can learn from their lessons. And since I’ve always loved a good story and a good storyteller, and I do want a preface that

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my testimony is hard,

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and there’s lots of little things like you can connect to that story where

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I was the 17 year old girl afraid and was in over my head in a lot of

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things, and I wasn’t the perpetrator. But in

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some of my

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story, I am the perpetrator. I am the one that hurts somebody, and so I don’t want anyone to hear my story and realize that there isn’t a lot of pain behind my words. There isn’t a lot of work that I have to do either by professional help, but also going to God every day. And throughout the moments when I feel weak or I hear ally of the enemy, I mean, I’m still a regular person, but it

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struggles like you said. The Lord is with us and it’s that faith muscle that he’s growing is were forced to sometimes right way rely on him,

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right? And you know what, and I’m just there with it, And what’s funny is what got me through what we’re about to talk about, which is the accident. You know, quotation is that faith is a muscle where I can look at all the times where God was faithful in God’s truth remained the light in me and the promises I stood on and I could go back to that belief system. And it’s really what carried me through. And it was the God showing up in the little every day miracles answering the small prayers that gave me the little bit of courage and faith that this big mountain that I was facing I would be OK from that, too.

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I remember when I was listening to your story that casts a started with a mama who was just picking up her daughter from volleyball practice.

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Right? It’s the ordinary day. But God knew that Plame was gonna change. And I believe that for me, the plan had changed. Would have found that later was the plan for David had changed. For some reason, he had turned around and these two plans and our time had to change. The change is part of the plan. For whatever reason, my story may trigger someone. So before I go into anything I just want to say to the listener, If I offend, you are hurt. You please forgive me if you’ve been hurt in a situation like this you know, Please forgive me. And if it causes you anger or if you feel a tugging in your spirit, then I would say Maybe stop and pray before you listen to my story because it is hard, it is hard and it is emotional. And I want you to know that it is always going to be a place where I care deeply for the families involved that attended that accident. So what we’ve referred to in this so far is I basically had an accident with a motorcyclist. My girls were in the car with me, didn’t see him approaching from my left, and there’s lots of little details on that that still will never make sense. And I’m okay with that. I have accepted that that there’s so many things in this life that won’t make sense, and it’s OK. That’s part of faith. We can apply it to anything that happens whether we conceived and miscarried a marriage that fell apart, a child who’s lost his way, things that don’t make sense. And in my life there are places where it didn’t make sense. And this is this is the mountain for me. So far, this is the one. This is the one that stands out, not just cause it’s the freshest, but because it is. I think the most painful thing all ever experience is knowing that I was responsible for someone else’s death, my decision to pull into that intersection even though I didn’t see him, it was my responsibility to inch an intern inch to where I could see around what was blocking my view. And that’s the deepest regret I’ll ever have. Ultimately, I know that God was still in charge that day. God still had away. If he chose to Same David, it wasn’t my prayers that went unheard. I have to believe in some ways it was part of the plan, and that’s really sad, too.

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Do you want to talk a little bit about what happened at the moment? Do you want Do you wanna

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only to

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say that I did everything that I could When I realized when I chose to go, I didn’t realize there was a divot in the hill, you know? So what we think happened is I looked left and he was a somewhere on the hill. I looked right and he was maybe where I could have seen him. And then I looked left again. He was probably in that div it, and then until he approached. It’s like an ark. Then that’s when I was like,

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Oh, I’m good. It was so much

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to where it was like no light. And then suddenly my car was just filled with light can. It’s like if you had a a black that was at the black screen, like a window shade where it looked like Blackout Curtain

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like that once. And then when someone just pulls back that line, do you know?

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And it’s just looking bust open the light that was always there, you know? But it suddenly you see

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it. That’s how I felt.

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It was

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nothing. And then it was everything. It came so fast toe where I really felt like I was about to be hit by a big old truck. The light was so bright, so fast in the car, and you know I did. I had met two girls. They were 12 and four at the time, and they immediately started crying where I was in shock. I didn’t understand what happened. I didn’t understand, like there was like it was no like there was no light again. I remember just I abandoned all natural instinct because once I realized what had happened, the fighter flight Israel and I was ready to fight and run to him when I saw him and on the ground and I abandoned my girls screaming and crying for their mother, and I went and took care of him to the best of my ability. You know, there’s a lot of little details. The

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things that I like

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abandons too strong. You just You went to go. You just you want to go help dried.

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I felt like I

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have ended them because they were scared. But I knew in that that they were at least in the car and safe and and he needed me more. And that’s probably the scariest thing I’ve ever done is leave the girl screaming Run to a pitch black country road with no light around us where obviously I just didn’t see someone and there’s a crescent. There’s hill on both sides and just praying that they didn’t witness their mommy get hit, too. Um, and all this is happening in seconds, you

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know? You see it in the movies,

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and they say things like Slow down and all the things are happening. It’s like it’s fast but it’s slow. That’s riel. It’s really I don’t even know how to explain it. I remember being shocked when I looked at my name of mine call, like, How long was I on the phone with them? Less than three minutes and help was there. Felt long. Did all of the things. I prayed with him. I held his hand. Thankfully, he made it to where his Children could say goodbye. And I’m really forever grateful for that. I’m grateful for the law enforcement and grateful for the MTs. I’m grateful for all the people who put that and witnessed these things over and over and over again, where I’m so deeply affected by one accident like this and they experience it all the time. He was an organ donor that also gave me comfort. And then I found out later that he was a believer That gives me lots of comfort to Yeah, this is the greatest tragedy of my life. Is this situation? But I also believe that God is also showing me so many things I would have never never known. Had this not happened, I would have never known the faith that I have now seeing how he can take something that looks completely helpless and completely hopeless. And and then it’s not

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After that day, what were the first things that started happening with the post process of the accident in your heart and your family?

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Well, immediately, I was like, Well, God is going to heal him. This is gonna be a major miracle. God is going to use this. He’s gonna just beat all the odds, and he’s gonna have this turnaround miracle. This is gonna be the testimony. Okay? God, you have me here because I started praying immediately and I gathered other

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people to pray

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with me. And this is gonna be a part of my testimony, because here’s this amazing man that survived this accident, and I thought, OK, you know, and I had I hope and I and I didn’t stop praying around the clock. I was shaken, but, you know, hindsight, somewhere I knew, I knew I had hoped. But I knew in my heart it was not going to turn out the way that I thought or that I was professing. I kept speaking and speaking is speaking it. And then, you know, I knew I knew somewhat what I was facing, but not all. I mean, I could tell you all the details of sitting with a trooper and I’m in the middle school math teacher and sitting in a state trooper’s car is not norm. I didn’t know what to do or what to say and how to sit. Can I watch him? And but there were real consequences I was up against. It wasn’t just as soon as that accident happened. It’s a potential crime scene. And once he passed away, it was a crime. It was an investigation. It waas a full on investigation. Vehicular manslaughter, homicide, whatever you want to say. I mean, that’s what it waas and making sure that our legal system protected that man and everybody else who wants safe driving. So I had to and I was in shock, So there’s lots of layers. So I was

spk_3: 33:59
praying, praying, praying, believing God, knowing in my heart

spk_1: 34:03
I knew the answer. I mean, I really do know that I knew because I feel like I saw his last breath. I feel like I saw his soul leave. I can’t explain that. Why? I know that. But I think I did. I think it’s even on the 911 tapes because I have stolen the phone. I had hoped, though you know, hope for his family, not necessarily hope for me. So I wouldn’t be in trouble hope for his family. And then once he passed understanding that there was a whole bunch of unknowns that we would have to wait explaining to the kids and I was just a shell. I was. I was functioning, and now, but I was grieving. I think about if you know, someone who’s lost a child or spouse and they’re just in shell shock.

spk_3: 34:58
Maybe not the

spk_1: 34:59
grief where they were waiting for it. They were expecting it. I mean, I’m sure they still go to a certain amount of shock to when it’s final, but there’s a different type of grief because there’s a shock with it when it’s sudden and I suddenly grieve someone I never knew and my family around me grieved the person they knew and I was grieving my normal life. Everything around me was changing, Possibly going to prison, losing Maybe my marriage. Will my Children be ashamed of me? Who am I? Am I ever gonna say I’m a safe driver again? Um, am I killer? I mean, that’s weird, but I had to say in my

spk_3: 35:47
killer Lord, do I have a victim? Do I have a victim? You

spk_1: 35:52
know, I was afraid to say his name. I was was worthy to say his name. What do

spk_3: 35:58
I do? Do I ask for forgiveness? There are so

spk_1: 36:03
many layers and all of this was happening inside my brain. Inside my heart, I was just a shell like a shadow just in bed, walking around. I came very quiet. I think that’s normal grief to the silence where you just bring everything in. I

spk_3: 36:21
kind of don’t know.

spk_1: 36:22
You can’t see me as you’re listening, but I feel like it felt like everything inside just came in word I didn’t talk much if I talked. I talked in the whisper kind of like when your labor and your you’re saving your energy

spk_2: 36:36
can you

spk_1: 36:37
whisper during labor? That’s how that’s where I waas. Everything was a whisper and my therapist kind of explain that to me is your prickly You’re heightened everything, every noise, everything around you. And so it made me want to shut down and inward. And I was angry with God, but I was still talking to him, you know, I couldn’t focus, couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, couldn’t love. Well, I couldn’t love well, but I was so appreciative in that interesting, so appreciative, my family crying and loving them, but then also feeling like they’re better without me. And, uh,

spk_3: 37:20
it’s so it’s so hard to

spk_1: 37:22
explain. It was so complicated. I mean, but that’s how I felt like I love them and appreciate them, but that that I didn’t feel worthy toa have them in, like, something was gonna happen to them because, like, maybe that would make sense.

spk_2: 37:35
Really? I can’t imagine what you went through. And it sounds like just through the accident after that day, like everything in your life completely changed. I mean, work your family being what just you just went so internal. And that must have been such a hard burden to bear. I know you still bear some of that burden today. What was the legal process like? Did you have a timeline or something that it was part of your stress at a lot of unknowns.

spk_1: 38:09
Yeah, there were unknowns because even though everyone could say, Oh, this was just an accident, You weren’t on your phone. You were drinking and driving. You weren’t speeding. This was just a horrific accident. Everything should be fine. And I would just nod and, you know, smile because nothing felt fine. Even if someone said, it’s completely find this is not your fault. I’m still not fine. Words are great, but what was? I was feeling the guilt and the shame. There’s like two separate bondage is there is just There’s the Depression and the lies of the enemy. But there was really legal consequences. I mean, there’s a whole list of different distractions that we do every day, that our social norms that people don’t realize are now distractions and reasons for a manslaughter charge. So it’s not just about your you know. I mean, I was already in spiritual bondage. I’m not as well have been in a spiritual prison cell there. Right? Okay. My spirit, my faith, my soul. It’s actually called moral injury. So my so was damaged. So there’s lower mind, body and spirit. My mind was physically damaged, My spirit was hurt and my soul was injured. The whole part of my being was hurt. So moral injury is what the psychologists describe for, like soldiers returning from war. I was morally injured. And

spk_2: 40:01
is that kind of like PTSD? It’s

spk_1: 40:04
part of PTSD. You know, I physically had post traumatic stress with PTSD. You have things like panic anxiety, loss of sleep, being able to reach rim sleep, which adds to paranoia and a bunch of other physical health problems when you’re not sleeping. Well, I didn’t know any of that either,

spk_3: 40:24
because there’s no protocol

spk_1: 40:25
for people like me. I mean, there’s like, uh hey, I’m gonna be calling you. Probably getting a ticket. You may have The district attorney may indict you. Well, you know. Yeah. As

spk_2: 40:38
so you had to be grilled by, He had to go in to court and stuff a lot.

spk_1: 40:44
I had to. It was an investigation that had to be interviewed several times. The and

spk_3: 40:49
and we all

spk_1: 40:50
want as citizens for our legal system to do these, um, interviews. We want them to investigate to the best of their ability, looking at every making sure justice is served, and I and I believe wholeheartedly, is the system perfect? Absolutely not, that I realized how naive I waas yet because there are thousands of people who are innocents or just like me, who on a day given day, made a human error and it and it costs someone else’s life. And we’re all angry about that. We’re angry for the grieving family were angry for the person who lost her life. That is normal, healthy, natural emotions. And then here I am the perpetrator saying. But in the same time, I didn’t ask for that. I

spk_3: 41:44
was

spk_1: 41:44
just doing what was normal. I

spk_3: 41:46
was just

spk_1: 41:46
talking to my daughter. I didn’t think that was a distraction. I was trying to the best of my ability. Sit there at a stop sign watch, but I didn’t treat it. I did not treat that road like a busy intersection. If

spk_3: 42:01
I was in

spk_1: 42:01
a busy intersection, I would of Incheon intern inst right.

spk_3: 42:06
But I was

spk_1: 42:07
just talking to my daughter. Everything was casual, my guard was down and I made a human error that cost another person their life and three other people there. Dad, another person there, brother and a son. So I see it from my end. But as a mom and a wife and a daughter, I see it from other ends. I see it from their perspective, too. And everybody needs to find justice. And not everybody is going to be happy. And and I can’t make it right. I can’t change what happened.

spk_2: 42:46
How did you find out about his family?

spk_3: 42:49
They tell you somewhat, a

spk_1: 42:50
little bit. The insurance, you know, obviously I have insurance. They hired a lawyer to protect them. I had to hire a separate criminal defense attorney, which is really weird, you know, Remember, he’s

spk_3: 43:03
right. Yeah, E. I mean, my husband, I What is the criminal defense attorney? I don’t know, right? Well, what’s funny is I wanted to be a lawyer, and I was little. I knew exactly what

spk_1: 43:16
it meant. There was funny that I wanted to be a lawyer. And suddenly there were things that I was hearing phrases and words Where what I learned in high school, suddenly I was like, Oh, my gosh, It was like, remember that whole God knew the plan painting the plan, but he also quit me. He gave me these little tools that even though I wasn’t accustomed to this language like walk throughs and bond and things, because I don’t live in that culture, I don’t know nobody in my life had ever been arrested or, you know, I mean, not really in my semi circle that I understood enough. But God planted little seeds and me started back in as a freshman in high school when I went to a La Bonnette High School in Dallas. I wanted to be a

spk_3: 44:04
lawyer. Wanted to be that

spk_1: 44:05
district attorney, making sure justice was served, making sure families were served. It’s funny now, but so I was facing really big things, and thankfully, it worked out for me. It, you know, grand Juries have six month terms in Texas, and my accident happened in October. The prayer list for that. I had everybody praying for Waas that my case would be heard before the end of the year because starting January, a brand new grand jury was coming on that January. When you have a brand new a group of jurors, indictments are really high because they take their responsibilities seriously. And they don’t want to make a mistake by not maybe sending someone to trial. Any

spk_3: 44:57
convention,

spk_1: 44:57
the burden. You’re weighing justice and you’re not equipped for it. You’re just a citizen from different populations. Distant, different socioeconomic status is different. Genders, different cultures, different face. And these different people serve for six months, and they’re selected at random to fit your population of your county. So it was October and normally to be heard, it can take usually wait more than three months.

spk_2: 45:25
It was your final court case to be whether you would be inducted, indicted and go to jail. Those were the two

spk_1: 45:32
also. So basically, because there wasn’t if I had if the if the preliminary evidence had shown gross negligence right away, like no, we see a text that went through You are definitely under the influence. You fell asleep at the wheel speeding. We know you were speeding. If there was gross negligence immediately seen, then the troopers would have immediately arrested me when there’s cases like mine. And to quote the trooper, he said, cases like yours are complicated because there isn’t any initial evidence toe why they were going to arrest me. So that’s why they have to conduct the interviews. Was there’s something else that caused this accident. They have to do their due diligence. They have to check measurements. They have to check lights on my car. His his motorcycle. They have toe check my toxicology check his toxicology. The man that I hit, they have toe. You know, they have to check all the things and do all the things this, you know, steps. In the meantime, there isn’t a protocol to necessarily make sure that I’m okay. Which I wasn’t right. They had to focus on just the legal aspect, gathering evidence and interviewing people and and timelines, making sure everything added up

spk_2: 46:56
there was. So it sounds like in this whole process, there wasn’t any protocol or teaching for them to look out for. You

spk_1: 47:05
know, I’m not

spk_2: 47:06
or direct you to anything as a Well,

spk_1: 47:10
no, thankfully again, a little miracle that God believed in here. I My name was was over the dispatch and the chaplain for our county. I happen to know and he heard my name. Recognize? You can’t miss my name and reached out and chose to take care of me like he would one of his officers and then other people reached out to the family through Victims Services. But he chose because he knew me to take care of me, and that’s a miracle. I just happened to

spk_3: 47:47
know him, know him enough to where I used to work with him and he knew my heart

spk_1: 47:51
and he knew my personality. Need the kids who knew Kris, you knew our backstory and that this is a tragedy that I would have never wanted or asked for. So it

spk_3: 48:02
took it

spk_1: 48:03
about three months. Like I said, which was a miracle. We got the grand jury decision right before Christmas and the jury. It could have literally

spk_2: 48:15
no, what years

spk_1: 48:16
of 2016 26

spk_3: 48:18
couldn’t gone either way, and I feel guilty

spk_1: 48:21
about that. There are a lot of families exactly like me, men and women who have the same situation. Or, you know,

spk_3: 48:29
maybe they maybe they were tired. Maybe they did get

spk_1: 48:32
into an argument with their family. Maybe they were emotional cause they just found out their grandmother died. There are a lot of families who do these things. See, this is what we don’t understand. We have to know that when we drive this car, it’s a modern day tragedy. These accidental killers accident with fatality. This is a modern day tragedy. Do you think about hundreds of years ago How did we accidentally kill someone with our maybe a

spk_3: 49:00
horse active wagon, right? You know, an allergy

spk_1: 49:05
to a food that we didn’t notice are you weren’t paying attention. There’s a fire, but it was not like it is now your car is a loaded weapon, and my criminal defense attorney said, people don’t think about it. But your car, your vehicle is a license to kill, and we should think about it. That’s seriously. We should teach our Children that if you wouldn’t take a loaded weapon and play with it running around with the safety off, if you wouldn’t, you know, pointed at someone and be silly with it. You know you wouldn’t dance around with it and ready for this gun to go off. You wouldn’t operate it when you’re exhausted or emotional or

spk_3: 49:53
any of the things

spk_1: 49:54
distracted. Busy. You’re not thinking about your grocery list on whatever while you’re driving and or while you’re shooting a again you Wouldn’t you be like, Wait a minute. All my attention needs to be on the safety of the skin. If I’m using in hunting or target practice, you’re you’re very heightened. But when we’re driving, we don’t have that same mindset. And that’s why the numbers go up. That’s why 40,000 people are affected every year. Well, we have to change the culture. We have to change and take it that seriously. And I thought I was a great driver, had a clean record hunt had speeding tickets.

spk_2: 50:34
So you were acquitted or

spk_3: 50:36
what it’s called. No bill. So if acquitted

spk_1: 50:40
would mean I had gone to trial. So basically, when the

spk_0: 50:43
district

spk_1: 50:43
attorney doesn’t want to make the decision all himself and he won’t on a fatality case, it has to go before a grand jury. So the citizens of that county decide whether or not they should Not if

spk_3: 50:58
it’s

spk_1: 50:58
an easy if it’s an easy thing that d A is gonna be Yes, and I Oh, wait a minute. You have a cause for arrest. Do it now. If you If there was evidence like I was intoxicated or whatever there would have been in the media arrest and the immediate charged, but because there wasn’t any evidence right there, I’m still responsible for his death. I was still the one that was did not have the right of way. It ultimately was still my responsibility to make sure that that road was clear. And it wasn’t. It wasn’t clear, like I thought

spk_2: 51:32
was his family in the courtroom.

spk_3: 51:35
I did not go in. So when you’re in a grand

spk_1: 51:37
jury, they only call you in if they have questions. So, really, it’s just the trooper or or any other police officers involved at the scene that collected the evidence and my lawyer, the D A and the jurors. And they if they have questions like they felt something was missing, they could have called me in. So, really, during that time, I was waiting around praying. I had a whole prayer group of people just praying for

spk_2: 52:08
me to stay home with your family. Just on your knees. Freaking out? Probably. Yeah,

spk_1: 52:13
I mean it. Really. It really didn’t hit my husband till the night before When

spk_3: 52:18
I think,

spk_1: 52:18
miss, you know, he didn’t. I want to even think about this

spk_2: 52:23
until we

spk_3: 52:23
got there. But I had to, you know, my

spk_1: 52:26
mom came into town. I had toe give, you know, all my information. This is who you call to bond me out. This is where the kids were going to go with these friends. If n case you’re handling getting me out of jail, you know,

spk_3: 52:42
these are all plans that had to be made. It’s kind of weird to be like, Okay, since we don’t know what’s gonna happen,

spk_1: 52:49
they told me I’ll be safe. They did tell me that they would put me in a special cell that I would be safe in tow, laundered out

spk_3: 52:56
these air, all conversations that are wild, right? You know

spk_2: 53:01
that you’re having with your husband and he’s thinking his wife might be in jail

spk_3: 53:05
tomorrow and then your kids and right. I mean, it’s like and and so we can talk about that, too. I mean,

spk_1: 53:12
there’s two separate things happening. There’s they’re still the grief happening. There’s still the deep sadness, regret and shame and guilt happening. There’s still the mental struggle. They’re still the spiritually like.

spk_3: 53:26
Where are you? God, where are you? But obviously he

spk_1: 53:29
was there when he was there with the jurors. He knew which jurors were gonna hear my case, and

spk_3: 53:35
I was

spk_1: 53:36
blessed. But there are people who walk into that and don’t get the same the same treatment,

spk_3: 53:42
doing the exact same thing or less. I mean, their parents

spk_1: 53:47
who are indicted for the death of their Children in the

spk_3: 53:50
car. I mean, that’s what I tell you there are. There are husbands that know that their wife unbuckled

spk_1: 53:57
to go back to the back of the car to check on a kid who hasn’t done that and the accident occurs. The wife dies because she’s unbuckled, and

spk_3: 54:07
that indictment is probably landing on on the husband. Well, we don’t

spk_1: 54:14
realize now the indictment might come to the husband.

spk_3: 54:19
Is a

spk_1: 54:19
jury gonna really convict? Probably not. But you’re still also going to go through that extra step of the legal system. And

spk_3: 54:30
who am

spk_1: 54:31
I to say there are plenty of innocent people write down. I and I take the veil off of our eyes. There are plenty of innocent people sitting in a prison cell right now,

spk_2: 54:44
whether it

spk_1: 54:45
whether it was because of the color of their skin, whether it is because the background whether it was because they made mistakes when they were

spk_3: 54:53
younger. Like I said, I had a clean driving record. But what if I had had

spk_1: 54:58
other speeding tickets? What if I had other tickets from running stop signs? What if I had had other accidents? All of those things would have been evidence of why I should have been indicted. Thankfully, I didn’t.

spk_2: 55:15
And you said even still, I’m sure most of you was so grateful and thankful that a little piece of you was guilty to that. Why? I’m free. But how come I’m the one who gets free And then

spk_1: 55:29
then my friends, the people I call friends, then the people now I’ve met better. Like me?

spk_2: 55:35
Yeah,

spk_3: 55:35
It’s kind of like I

spk_1: 55:36
feel like, um, you know, I have Children that have genetic disorder, So I have been in the nick. I’ve been in the I C. U in the pediatric I c u. I know what that feels like, but I haven’t walked through cancer with my Children, but I’ve had other things, but I can imagine it’s like the two moms who get to know each other in the cancer ward and one gets the wearing her mission and the friend next door lose their child. They were fighting the same battle. They walked the same road. They had the same doctors, same treatment, the same prayers and one got remission. And one, I guess I got a different answer. But it is in heaven and still filled

spk_2: 56:23
when it’s

spk_1: 56:23
just a different road

spk_2: 56:25
in. Like you said, God’s eyes are open to both sides and both needs and both stories in both outcomes.

spk_3: 56:35
That was that

spk_1: 56:36
was one of the things that really helped me heal was when I had to go back to the realization that cause I did a question God, did you love me? Like, do

spk_3: 56:46
you love me? If you love me, why would you

spk_1: 56:49
allow me to hurt hurt like this and hurt someone else like this? And

spk_3: 56:54
it wasn’t necessarily about hurting David because he knew he wasn’t hurting. Why would you let me

spk_1: 57:01
hurt someone else’s Children? It really bothered me to her innocent Children. Yeah, You know that

spk_2: 57:09
because they lost their father

spk_1: 57:11
because they lost their father. That

spk_3: 57:12
was hard. Still heart. That will always always be hard. But that’s the beauty

spk_1: 57:20
of the cross are suffering is not always gonna be pretty and perfect. And sitting on a shelf and shiny the healing will never always be shiny and perfectly bury new. Sometimes Victory is living with the suffering and still loving the Lord serving the Lord. And I’m

spk_3: 57:42
like, limping along. I don’t know.

spk_4: 57:45
What I’m learning is that God can take what is completely broken and somehow make it beautiful still, and that sounds really cliche, but that’s exactly what it was. I mean, every aspect of life was working. So even with the grand jury decision that I was free. I know that that helped my family and it helped me because, honestly, I couldn’t imagine we never got to that next step. If I have been indicted, if I had, I had to go to trial and that’s the thing I might have taken a plea deal. You’re looking at someone who might have felt innocents like I didn’t do anything necessarily wrong. I don’t know what I would do differently. I felt like I followed the law. I felt like I was being a good, responsible person in the moment, but I might have taken a plea deal because they make them very enticing. So if I would have said Okay, trial to be completely clear, completely acquitted had I been indicted. Trial means Media Trial Means More Fees. Trial means $75,000 in legal fees. Child means a potential of 2 to 18 years in prison, which is what it is in Texas. That’s a huge gray area. But if a D A says, well, if you take this plea deal, I’ll make it 1/3 degree misdemeanor. You’ll get, you know, 18 months with an ankle monitor. But you’re gonna say that you’re guilty. What are you gonna do? You’re going to take an ankle monitor at home, lose your teaching license. Really? You know, put your family still with them. $5000 legal, fine or whatever, not to mention the civil suit still come in. But you know, you you go ahead and take the plea deal because that would be less problems for your Children. The media will go away. It’s just done. You know, you’re still dealing with the spiritual side, the emotional side, the psychology side, the financial side. But at least that part would be in the books or say no. I know that I follow the law and you take that gamble of a jury or a judge and you’re looking at possibly 2 to 18 years plus more legal fees. Plus, so this is where the system’s broken. Yeah, and God can make my story how it turned out, or the story of the person who does get convicted. He can make both of those beautiful, because when we look at it, we’re looking at from the human side. But God sees all of it. The same God saw me broken and loving this man that I did. I didn’t know he loved my Children who were worried about their mom. He loved the man in the road and his Children and his family. He loved the E. M T. Is that we’re working so hard to save his life. He loved the law enforcement that came. He loved the strangers that walked past and saw this whole thing go down. He saw all of us the same that day, and that was part of my hailing. It was my story. It was David. Story was his family story was my Children’s story was, my husband store is my mom and dad. Story was everybody’s story, all happening at one time and only can do that is God.

spk_2: 1:1:32
Jim, Thank you for sharing your story just to think of how God can use what you’ve been through to help other people that thinks more sober minded when we’re driving and to I know if my kids any time I see an ambulance or a car accident, we stopped and we pray the car cause I just think somebody’s life just changed today, right? And Jen, when I was praying for you that the verse I want to share with you is Proverbs 18 10. The name of the Lord is a strong tower. Righteous runs into it, and it’s safe. Here is your PS some experts

spk_0: 1:2:17
about our

spk_2: 1:2:18
guests? Are you ready for some questions? Yes, any unique family tradition.

spk_4: 1:2:24
We love breakfast for dinner, and in fact, my husband just made it the other night. Seven pictures breakfast for dinner, especially at Christmas Eve. So I make a huge Christmas dinner, but it’s all breakfast food, and we save all the leftovers so we can snack on it the next morning. and, you know, like monkey bread greats. And you know, all the things, all the things breakfast. So that’s one of the traditions that we have. Karuna’s

spk_2: 1:2:53
your favorite childhood memory

spk_3: 1:2:55
getting time. I went to

spk_4: 1:2:56
go visit your family in Paris. It was a friend to say it was from Paris, Texas.

spk_2: 1:3:02
Most embarrassing moment.

spk_3: 1:3:04
This makes me feel

spk_4: 1:3:05
silly because I was so I’m blonde. And so when I was younger, it was like she’s did see and, you know, I was very sparked, but I was also like and I even did see and

spk_3: 1:3:16
oh, I was

spk_4: 1:3:17
always late to the punch line like I didn’t get it and have to sit.

spk_3: 1:3:20
Oh, I’m one of those people, you know. So one time I was

spk_4: 1:3:25
in charge of writing, Um, I was also a cheerleader, and we had this. We took turns on having to make signs and I was in charge of this one. I drew it out so I could just start painting it and nobody edited me. Go get the charters are charged. Those chargers. But Chargers was

spk_3: 1:3:45
Carter’s great, but we had already started painting and everything.

spk_2: 1:3:52
Good thing you didn’t do it nowadays because there be means for a lot of

spk_3: 1:3:58
God. There was social

spk_4: 1:4:00
media back when I was a teenager

spk_2: 1:4:03
favorite you time activity.

spk_4: 1:4:05
So I love a dance fitness called refit. When I do have time I put on YouTube, they have great refit revolution. You can check them out because it’s dancing and it’s fun. It’s family friendly. The kids will dance with me. You can do it from my living room. But I also love writing and reading a write poetry. And I paint

spk_2: 1:4:23
nice. Yeah, you go to a quick meal.

spk_3: 1:4:26
I think tacos and my kids

spk_4: 1:4:29
would probably tell you spaghetti

spk_2: 1:4:30
a superpower, wishing

spk_4: 1:4:32
Oh, my gosh. I wish I had more arms or super lightning speed where I could just get more done in the day. I take on a lot of things. Like, you know, I’m a teacher. And mom, we have dogs. Four kids. I’m in grad school. I’m broadcaster. I mean,

spk_3: 1:4:51
grad school to throw that in there. Yeah, I’m doing all the

spk_4: 1:4:55
things at one time.

spk_2: 1:4:56
How have you gotten to Minister toe? Others as a result of all you went through.

spk_3: 1:5:00
And this is

spk_4: 1:5:01
really special, because I really feel that God answering my prayers of bringing the other people that were like me or that have experienced this really saved my life. So the testimony of somebody else else really gave me hope and healing. If I could look to someone else and be like they’ve made it seven years, they’ve made it 20 years. They made 18 years. Maybe I can make it to. And so the testimony of people that God brought in my life really saved my life. And now it’s one of the reasons why I share. So I share that. Maybe it will help someone else. And And I think helping other people has helped me kill.

spk_2: 1:5:43
And I know one way you help us, you have a podcast.

spk_4: 1:5:46
Tell us about your podcast. So thank you.

spk_3: 1:5:50
And I dio

spk_4: 1:5:51
it. So we just went into season two of accidental hope. And truly, my heart is just to be a resource. When I was going through this, I searched and searched and searched, trying to find things that would help me give me the direction, the keys to healing. What is the steps? What

spk_3: 1:6:08
is the 12 steps appealing? There s

spk_4: 1:6:11
nothing there were. No resource is. I mean, it did eventually find one resource that I guess, the mentor pioneer that I looked to as my

spk_3: 1:6:20
hero, who will be on season two. Her name

spk_4: 1:6:24
is Mary and Gray. I got a little giddy because I truly appreciate this woman and all the work that she’s done. But she is a caddy like myself. Capital C A d I, meaning causing external death or injury. I prefer that over accidental killer. Please don’t call me an accidental killer. I mean, it is the truth, but it hurts, you know?

spk_3: 1:6:46
Accidental hope. Yeah. So that’s what Yeah, That’s kind of where that came

spk_2: 1:6:51
from. What was not helpful When you’re going through, you’re tough times.

spk_4: 1:6:57
Believe it or not, it And I’ll say this. I’m glad that they did. And they meant well, that when you hear it was just a knacks ident, it was not your fault. Stop beating yourself up. It was just an accident. You

spk_3: 1:7:13
kind of wanna hurt people you really want to,

spk_4: 1:7:16
like, punch them. You really it really what it did was maybe want to stop talking. Because if I tell you how I feel and how I’m my heart’s breaking and you come at me with Well, it wasn’t your fault. Well, I feel like it was my fault. You

spk_3: 1:7:31
could tell me all you want.

spk_4: 1:7:32
It wasn’t my fault, but I feel like it was very much You

spk_3: 1:7:36
can tell me

spk_4: 1:7:37
it was just an accident, but I don’t feel like it was just a next, because it wasn’t just an axe and it was the most significant moment of one man’s life. To me, that’s not just an accident. It’s a whole event.

spk_2: 1:7:52
What would you want to say to David into his family if you had a few minutes?

spk_4: 1:7:58
Well, im just recently, I’ve kind of said this. And if you’ve heard me speak before, I talked to David all the time. Whether that’s weird or not like, I guess if if you have a loved one that you’ve lost like a family member close to you and you talk to them, you know, talk to your grandma, talk to Mom, top tier. Maybe that you have lost or whatever. You couldn’t talk to them. I talked to David Do That’s what It’s weird. I grieved a stranger like a loved one. What I say to his Children is I hope that they have found forgiveness in their heart. For me, you are forgiven the situation that they have peace than that. They have comfort, and they have healing or on the road to healing. I hope that they they know that they are deeply cared for by me and others

spk_2: 1:8:49
just in talking to you. Jen, you have such a big heart for people. And you reached out to so many. And if somebody wanted to reach out to you with this story, would you want to give them an email?

spk_3: 1:9:03
That was yet

spk_4: 1:9:04
we can reach me on Facebook and Instagram at Accidental Hope Page Instagram and Facebook. I have a blawg called my beautifully broken dot com when they can email me through there, Um, certainly send you information to send to me. But I’m open to I want to represent all sides of this story.

spk_2: 1:9:28
Tell me what you love about your hubby and each of your kids.

spk_3: 1:9:32
Okay? I love how my husband can pretty

spk_4: 1:9:37
much get away with anything because I love his temples. Uh, no. I love how he loves me. I love how he loves our kids. I love how he ministers to young people. He’s a coach. So I love how he loves Jesus and family. He that he would have let me literally, he wanted. He wanted eight kids I love when he seems it melts me and he’s goofy with Patrick, of course, is my firstborn. I love that. He’s kind of feisty.

spk_2: 1:10:06
Even how old is he?

spk_4: 1:10:07
He’s 17 And so, um, and he doesn’t drive yet, so he thinks that’s the end of the world.

spk_3: 1:10:14
I won’t let him drive yet.

spk_4: 1:10:16
That’s probably the repercussion of having a mom with this kind of serious accident. I love that he stands up for justice. He loves deeply. I love Katy because me and that girl, she already has a testimony that not only was she in the accident, but there’s a point where she lived in pain every day of her life. I mean, she’s had brain surgery and abdominal migraines. She loves Jesus with her whole heart, and I know that she’s got a powerful testimony. Someday she’s 15 and then we have Logan, who

spk_3: 1:10:50
I thought was my baby for a long time.

spk_4: 1:10:54
Logan is 13. Gonna be 14 soon, and he has the biggest sensitive heart. He is my sense of the boy, fun loving and always he’s the peacemaker to trying to make you laugh in the serious situations. I

spk_3: 1:11:09
will guess. Guess

spk_4: 1:11:10
Patrick’s like that to the both kind of bring the like when it’s serious. They both want to be silly trying to make you laugh, you know, And then we have our confuse switches haven, and she’s seven.

spk_3: 1:11:21
There’s a

spk_4: 1:11:22
miracle, actually behind each of their burst. Like I said, faith is a muscle with each one of them. There was something special. God, given whether it was like a complete plus in the premium with Patrick and I went into early labor or every one of them are is a miracle. They’re each a miracle, and I love them more than anything. And I appreciate them.

spk_2: 1:11:41
What is your favorite book of the Bible and why

spk_3: 1:11:45
I think it acts the book of acts. I mean, it was really hard to think about.

spk_4: 1:11:51
I love the problems, too, but out of the Psalms, but acts, I think, is because it’s the early church. I think it talks about the Holy Spirit, which I resonate with a lot.

spk_2: 1:12:03
Which character or person in the Bible do you most admire or relate to?

spk_4: 1:12:08
I really think it’s the woman at the well, because one she went early thinking she could be. Everybody was earlier. She came late. She thought she was gonna beat everybody there that no one was gonna be there. And yet there, Jesus Waas. And it was a divine appointment. He loved her just as she waas and he talked to her like he confronted her sin, but also gently and loved her. Anyway, he didn’t tell her to go convict her. You didn’t tell her what she was doing wrong. He just I feel like the woman at the well, sometimes you know all the things that we’ve experienced in our life. You know, I didn’t do it always Well, I mean, even now, telling my testimony is trial and error. Sometimes it feels like I’m giving out a lot. It’s heavy. It’s like handing someone this big old boulder that was mind to bear. So there’s things that I’ve learned and I’ve had to learn from trial and error. But in the end, I’m s