Episode 14- Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
and being part of such a freakish groom of people that were proclaiming to be Christians, which led me to just hating all Christians by any anything, any affiliation with Christians or Christianity I ran so far from I just did not want anything to do with Christians.

spk_1:   0:21
And now, for the next episode of Letters from Home, sending encouragement to your doorstep by capturing the heartbeat of God’s people one story at a time. Today’s guest has a childhood that nobody wants tohave being involved in occult, where things got ugly. But that is not the end of her story. She also has a story of freedom, sweet freedom and healing. I bring you Michelle’s incredible faith journey, and at the end of this episode, I am excited to share with you and moving response and gift from one of our listeners. Michelle, thank you so

spk_2:   1:03
much for letting me interview you today. When I heard you share your story on your podcast altered stories. It moved my heart in so many ways. Just the honor to have you share your story well, thank

spk_0:   1:19
you, Mac. It’s a blessing to be able to do

spk_2:   1:21
that. Well, tell us about your upbringing.

spk_0:   1:25
I grew up in a military family. My dad and mom were both in the Air Force after my mom and I got married and they were met when they were both in the Air Force. My mom chose to get out of the Air Force and to stay home and raise her Children. They were quite lively. They

spk_2:   1:48
had a pretty healthy

spk_0:   1:49
social life. Of course, they had a lot of home parties and things like that. And when my mom became a born again Christian through the Billy Graham crusade because she was raised Catholic, their lifestyle changed. That was when I was probably around 23 Could just and remember

spk_2:   2:14
you remember Tumor three? I remember

spk_0:   2:17
just little, you know, just little things. She became very legalistic and my dad was raised. Church of Christ. He was as Southern boy. My mom was from the East Coast. When she

spk_2:   2:30
became a

spk_0:   2:31
Christian, she started going to my dad’s church, hoping that my dad would go and he chose not to, because that was just not his jam. And so my mom continued, going forward with serving the Lord so are spiritually. Life is really molded from my spares life are my brothers and sisters from my mom from the time I was probably five when my dad was actually deployed and he didn’t work in the front line, but he had to go to Vietnam. And so my mom chose while my dad was over in Vietnam to move closer to her family. So we moved to Rhode Island, and that’s when I first became a Christian. My mom was going to the Christian Missionary Alliance Church there, and so I found Jesus when I was five in Sunday school and began the journey of

spk_2:   3:36
a five year old and a faith based home at that time.

spk_0:   3:41
Because my my dad was not living with my mom. He was over in Vietnam and my mom was kind of the head of household. My brother and my mom and I. We went to Church of the Christian Missionary Lines Church, and then my dad came back, and then from there,

spk_2:   3:57
someone with a gun he was

spk_0:   3:58
gone was a good year. When he came back, he was transferred to South Dakota, and then when we were living there, that is when my baby sister came along At that point in time, my mom had to find a new church. She

spk_2:   4:17
was kind of

spk_0:   4:18
lonely. My dad was in logistics planning and he was gone a lot because he would go off to these special assignments and he would be gone for two or three days and was very secret anyway. My mom met some friends, and at that point in time, her friends started inviting her to home church. She started going, and that is when the change came in terms of becoming involved with Christians that she really didn’t know that much about because they were not under an accountability your govern, answer a denomination or anything like that. My mom shows to bring us kids, and my dad was like, Oh, that’s okay because the hammy was just giving her the freedom to go out and choose where she wanted to go to church, and he didn’t realize what always involved in that. And it was more of a control over the way that we were to interact with each other the way that we were to be in service to God. There was a lot of legalism you couldn’t wear certain clothing. You couldn’t you know we’re makeup differently? At that point in time, I really wasn’t wearing makeup at that age. I was probably eight then. They didn’t want you celebrating certain holidays. There was this desire to keep everybody just fellow shipping within the group. My mom was a young Christian, so there wasn’t a whole lot of disciple ing and because she was yearning for community and she had these friends and she thought it was all good, you know, she felt it was family and she was seeking family and connection and all those things, because my dad,

spk_2:   6:15
he was pretty much with the buds. He was into his career, he was doing his thing,

spk_0:   6:20
and Christianity was not something he desired or felt like he needed or wanted in its life. My dad, waas given a new assignment, and at that point in time, he was expected to go to Germany. Well, at that time, my mom and dad talked about it and they made the decision that my mom and as kids, we’re going to stay in the state. So my dad said it was okay for my mom to relocate with this Christian group. They were calling themselves the EC Lucy. A group now

spk_2:   7:02
ec Lissi is pretty broad. You go out and look at it.

spk_0:   7:06
There’s a lot of affiliation around ECHL ACEA, and it doesn’t necessarily mean cold or whatever. But this is how the man that was in charge of the group and let it was a leader. He called it the Acacia Group. And so he had been a former pastor, went to Oral Roberts University. Essentially, Waas kicked out of the church he was in. There was a lot of different things that had transpired, and he was quite a bit older than his wife. And he had a stepson. When he made the decision to relocate from Rapid City, South Cody, he chose to to Casper a Y on me, and he was there for a period of time. And that’s where we moved When my dad was over in Germany, you know, there wasn’t sky. There wasn’t any of the technology that you have today. And it was just through letters or it was through a phone. I don’t think even at that wait that my dad really understood impact that this was having my mom. This the impact it was having on us kids, so we weren’t allowed to watch television, and that’s when there was more immersion in handing out tracks. That’s when a lot of the dysfunction started in the group and when some of the craziness that came in around exposing others, too, the belief system that you should be, you know, in front of the Lord completely open and uninhibited. And that’s when they had this whole. I guess you would call it. They called it inhibitions. And so I mean,

spk_2:   9:04
this is so bizarre to tell talk this way I to the

spk_0:   9:07
state cannot believe I went through this. Okay, can you imagine a nine year old sitting there and watching people sitting in a Bible study with no clothes on? I mean, I was nine, my sister Waas really young, and I can’t even begin to tell you how confusing it iss to to see that or to be around that and

spk_2:   9:39
not laughing or not thinking as silly

spk_0:   9:41
or I still to this day, I still can’t understand how a man could think he could actually get away with that and how people could allow their Children to be subjected because it started out in a group setting. Then it became segregated and and he almost presented it as it was normal. And he presented it almost like it was for our education, for our learning,

spk_2:   10:05
for a closer

spk_0:   10:06
relationship with God, in terms of how we were worshiping and how we were in the presence with God. So

spk_2:   10:14
it was so incredibly using. Crazy. Mixed is very messages. It waas. It was very mixed up. What do you think your mom was thinking at this time? And what did those smaller groups look like? What does that mean? Well, what I

spk_0:   10:30
mean is eventually took the women off over one group, and then he’s segregated the couple’s into one group, and

spk_2:   10:38
I mean, these were

spk_0:   10:39
just separate Bible studies in worship that he started integrating into the actual Terps services. So, you know,

spk_2:   10:47
home. I know. And then and then it was about,

spk_0:   10:52
you know, started involving the touching and the exploring. And I mean, it was just so slimy. Now that I look back in retrospect, thinking this man was so evil and how he was abusing us, you know how he’s abusing and even, you know, the shame that I felt from that. And then, of course, my and then my mom, seeing how you know your mother can allow that you’re just going Oh, my g. You know what? What is this all about? So that transpired and that my dad did not have any indication or idea that any of that had happened. But what happened was I was

spk_2:   11:34
wrongly still living in your house. Yeah, and then going todo meeting. Yes, yes, they wouldn’t say anything about it. And you’re just a kid. So you’re not thinking a mom. Where we having naked by you? Just hear, kid, you’re just like, Oh, this is normal. This is what I remember. This is so bizarre. Meg, I remember carrying my

spk_0:   11:51
baby sister and she wasn’t wearing any clothes into this.

spk_2:   11:57
And I was trying to

spk_0:   11:58
protect her, you know, in in my head. Yeah, and I just you know, I was so protective of my sister and my brother. I mean, he totally rebelled. I mean, he just went off the deep end, and I started. I started rebelling. I mean, I was a student that excelled, and I had all high marks. And as a result of the experience and the things that were going on as a child, you know? And if their

spk_2:   12:35
trauma means your trauma, your urine trauma

spk_0:   12:38
over something like that in that experience

spk_2:   12:40
and not only that, the other

spk_0:   12:41
kids Aaron, draw, you know? So you’re seeing this And then, of course, thankfully. Well, God’s mercy.

spk_2:   12:50
My brother, of course, rebelled. That all came down. And is it was it home school through this group or even public? No. We’re in public school. Oh, yeah. And we moved again from

spk_0:   13:04
the location that we’re eating Casper and then moved to Billings. My dad had came home for a period of time, and then he went back to Germany because it was supposed to be like a four year deal. It ended up not being that long because my dad was brought over from Germany for emergency leave to be able to do with my brother, who was rebelling and he left home. And my parents are essentially lost custody of my brother.

spk_2:   13:32
How old was G was? I think

spk_0:   13:34
at that time he was night. Their 10th grade.

spk_2:   13:36
Oh, yeah, pretty much ran away. My mom had

spk_0:   13:40
become so entrenched in this that she believed in her mind set that this man really was a man of God and that everything she was doing in our minds and was for the benefit of her Children. I

spk_2:   13:51
mean, this is really what you believe and all these other individuals and there were families

spk_0:   13:58
that had families that had families that were all part of this. And then there was very weird wacko people that came in and, you know, they were people that were recovering addicts or,

spk_2:   14:10
you know, just very vulnerable people, you know,

spk_0:   14:13
you know, that became affiliated with this man. The hard thing through it is that because my dad was abroad and the way that this all happened, it started very innocently and warmly and welcoming. And then it just kind of escalated into this really unhealthy way off living and I had become a person that had to live my life one way. And then I was trying to lived in a normal day to day going to public school, you know, not allowing this to affect me. But eventually it started and I rebelled, and I was stealing from my mom’s purse, and I was skipping school. I was hanging out around kids and then my brother, you know, that’s when it it all came down. And then my dad had to come over, and

spk_2:   15:14
I realized things

spk_0:   15:16
had to start. Yes. Think. And then this man was exposed in the media. And thankfully, that happened. At the time when I was going about 13 12 and 13. My mom had to make a choice between staying in this group because my mother, even during that time and by the way, out of respect for my mom, she’s no longer with us. She knew I was going to hear this. She knew I was going to bring this to the mike. Yes. Okay. And I will tell you that my mom, she did ask for forgiveness and she knew she didn’t know the extent to the scarring. She knew that she was responsible and accountable for things that had happened. But she had a hard time, I think, accepting the full responsibility of it.

spk_2:   16:14
When did she? As you said in the middle of that, she was still support him. When did she have that turn around?

spk_0:   16:20
It was when my dad said me for him, and that was right after my brother left home and essentially they lost custody. And my brother is amazing. He’s doing phenomenal. He’s a very highly successful person in all the areas of his life in that, but he’s overcome it. And, you know, I don’t think it’s a deal with him for me. You know, It was something I carried inside of me for a very, very, very long time. And I had. I didn’t realize just how I didn’t realize it was even sexual abuse until I went to a counselor when I was 42. Wow, I did not realize the impact that this all had on me, how a suppressed things and the anger that was inside of me, because essentially, I was so angry at my mom bank that I beat her. But I was 13. I pounded my mom. I pounded. I’m serious. I’m was murdered. Job. Really? Yes, I had so much anger and resentment and just I hated my mom, and I remember crying out to God because of the situation, and our family did not undergo any kind of special counseling or anything like that. It wasn’t until later on in life that things started happening in my anxiety. And I really think there was a lot of trauma that came out of that. And not only that, you know, there’s a lot of chaos in my family because my dad’s military career in us moving all those things in the culmination of that. And then you add, you know what else is going on in the house hold and being part of such a freakish groom of people that were proclaiming to be Christians, which led me to just hating all Christians by any anything, any affiliation with Christians or Christianity I ran so far from I just did not want anything to do with Christians in my mind. That was what Christians were about,

spk_2:   18:26
you know,

spk_0:   18:26
and I just had all kinds of ahead, since I had no counselor at that point or nobody to talk to and no way to release Intel what had happened to me. For one thing, I was so fearful of not being accepted, that was all I ever wanted to do was be accepted by others. God in his infinite mercy and his grace, he gifted me with gifts of leadership gifts and all these various things that helped me and encourage me to be able to still excel even though all these things were in my background and I was just I didn’t want anybody find out

spk_2:   19:08
about did you? This might sound like a funny question, but did you miss the people? Because when you’re that close with the community there, like, they are like family and you’re all going through this together and then it was suddenly cut off. There were a couple of the

spk_0:   19:23
girls that I become close to, and they were like me and they I didn’t. I want to be part off this and they knew it was wrong. And in my head, all I ever remember saying I want to break free of this. I want to break free was almost like you’re in prison. We would talk about stuff and we would, you know, that’s how we were able to mentally deal with what we were going through. And then, of course, through the process, some people would leave and that would be ridiculed or was I think I shared one time when my sister was being watched and I was with her and they were very hard on my sister and I got very upset and I told my mom and my mom got upset and they made a big sermon about my mom and ridiculed her, and I mean and I remember Mom’s leaving their kids up there in the front, allowing this man that was heading this up to discipline them in front of everybody,

spk_2:   20:31
right in that

spk_0:   20:31
right in the service. Yeah, it’s just it’s just mind boggling. Thankfully, it took a while for my mom to come out from underneath that she still had all these attachments, and I had deep fears that she was going to try to go back. She was still, even though she broke free from them. She was still imposing lots of controls on me, and my brother was, of course, not at home then, and I just felt suffocated by the way my mom was trying to control me, and that’s of course. That’s when I blow up. I didn’t respect my mom, didn’t trust my mom. I couldn’t stand my mom. I just want my dad to leave my mom and I didn’t know why didn’t leave my mom and it was just hard through the rest of my high school years. It seemed little by little my mom was starting Teoh. I don’t know what the word is because she was very obviously very brainwashed. I think she was beginning Teoh immerse herself back into normal life in a normal church, helping with healthy people and my best friends, family and all those things. And I think even then I didn’t really cared to get that involved.

spk_2:   21:54
But I was on the

spk_0:   21:54
outs with everything and then, you know, God in his graciousness, just continue to pursue me. You know, I never really came to what I would consider a a committed relationship really committed to the Lord until I was about 29. And that is when I started, I guess going through the process of believing that God loved me. And it was because there were people that God brought across my path. He knew the right kind of people descent me where I would say, Okay, there they’re not two out there thes air people that seem normal and that they had lived, you know, normal loving lifestyle and I just through the process, slowly, little by little. The healing started to come. But it wasn’t until I was in my forties, truly that I realized that what I had come through, the council came right out and said, You had you went through sexual assault abuse. It took me a while to process that, and then I had to revisit all those emotions and everything else. And then, of course, I had to go to my mom and share that with her. And I think it traumatized her knowing that she was responsible for that. And God helped me gain an understanding of a person’s mind. Said that would move into that kind of control, letting others control their minds, that trying to understand that there are people who not very strong minded or they’re very vulnerable. And they’re not even that these things happen. And when a person has an emotional base or when they’re broken, they’re not healed, then they can cause havoc in their own families. They can cause all kinds of issues with others and things like that.

spk_2:   24:03
They’re more susceptible to controlling people or yes groups. Yes, and so I had to come to the

spk_0:   24:11
realization that that was what my Mom Waas, That’s who she waas.

spk_2:   24:16
I never wanted to be like my mom. I wanted to be so anti my

spk_0:   24:20
mom because of what I saw her in and what where she what she did in the choices she made in terms of her needs in that way. I mean, I always wanted to be more independent, be more strong minded and not be so vulnerable and things like that with people. I could read people really differently, I think. And I think with my mom, Yeah, she was very loving. And, you know, she I don’t think she she realized it had been exposed to anything. Like, you know, someone that would be that controlling. Did

spk_2:   25:03
your dad go through any kind of guilt? And has your mom did? Your mom’s in your relationship progress over years. Like, were you able to look on her a little bit with compassion?

spk_0:   25:16
Yes, as a as a more understanding. And, you know, I started going through the healing process with my mom and understanding more of her broken background. And, um yeah, Then I began to kind of understand more. I just had to learn to accept who my mom Waas and I realized I couldn’t change her. I couldn’t. Only God could change anything and that I wasn’t her. I didn’t grow up the way she did. I didn’t have the same experience as she did. I didn’t have the marriage that she had with my dad. And, you know, it seemed like my mom, we’re my mom, had my little baby brother, Dave, and, uh, she was in a different place in her life. And it was like I was giving her a new beginning to start her family over again without that kind of broken to this. And so my baby brother was raised with my mom and dad and healthier way. And so I think that did a lot to my mom, and it helped her tremendously having that new start with the new child. But there was still the baggage.

spk_2:   26:32
So how about for you? You said you were a counselor and the counselor was super helpful where there are other things that were instrumental in your healing or things that you could recommend for someone who’s going somewhere into a place. And it’s starting to have some weird signs or or somebody who’s needing hailing from that kind of a thing.

spk_0:   26:55
Yeah, first and foremost, I think you need to understand that their Christian counselors that are skilled and can help you understand why you may be experiencing some of the different feelings and emotions or anger or the trauma repercussions or some of the mental health issues that are affiliated with those kind of experiences. Also, I really believe in a sovereign God in a God that knows you personally. And so bringing the right friendships, the right teachers, the right pastors, the right people in the church or community groups or fellowship groups. Or, you know, just those people that have that kind of kindness and discernment and understanding. And there’s also all kinds of resource is now there’s not casts. There’s so many different ways that you can really get to know and understand the route costs of your Brokenness or, you know, the tell people in your circle or be very careful and very discreet. But that always also helped me. I was part of women’s groups. I, you know, was able Teoh discuss in the right kind of women’s support groups. Some of what I encountered and it was all private, and it was all confidential, so that helped me.

spk_2:   28:34
What a blessing to be able to put it out there. Yeah, experience, love, and yeah, Still processing. What the hell meant? Yes, exactly. Because it took me a long time. I didn’t cause I’m the type

spk_0:   28:46
of person, not a victim mentality, so I kind of just suppressed it. Okay, This is my experience. This is it. I’m gonna keep going. Boom, boom, boom. This is my I’m an achiever. I really just said, OK, I’m gonna live my life differently now because when my mom made that decision to step out of that cold and my mom and dad decided to go forward and try to make it work, and he’ll through that, you know, I was like,

spk_2:   29:16
who? I’m free. I mean, and I started living

spk_0:   29:20
my life in celebrating life and lived it so differently than people. I never took it for granted, you know, that’s why even to this day, I truly get up every day and thank God for the freedom I have and out of that oppression and that I can live my life fully. And you know I’m not in that just that place of oppression and control. Worry felt like I chains and was being bound. And, you know, I couldn’t be who I waas and so suffocating,

spk_2:   29:56
and I guess I

spk_0:   29:57
cannot handle very controlling people. I just that is, I know it’s fear based and all those things,

spk_2:   30:05
and I have a

spk_0:   30:06
bit of my own control needs because of that. But I will tell you that when I was set free from that, I truly began to cherish my freedom brand that maybe live my life differently.

spk_2:   30:26
That’s so encouraging. Machine left what you’re saying about freedom. And just as you’re talking, I just I’m wondering, Did you ever get to talk in your adult life? Have you ever gotten to talk with any of the other people that were in that group and did? Did he ever get brought

spk_0:   30:42
to justice? Those are all really great questions, and I have to try to do research on him, and I haven’t been able to find a whole lot. I don’t know that question. I do know that there are still people out there, but I choose not to reach out. I may, as I research my book I mean, as I get ready to write a book and do a little bit more research because one of the things I wanted to do is write a book on my experience. Primarily, it is to keep people alert to their vulnerability if they’re not fully grounded in the word of God, Aaron, their truth and understanding And to be very careful, like on my podcast. You know where to one is actually coming in and talking with me and she I mean, she gives everybody all this insight in, you know, awareness of what you need to be looking for. So you don’t fall into this circumstance is that my mom fell into

spk_2:   31:47
and Michelle, I think one thing you’ve done as a result of all of your experience because, like you said, you you’re not looking back. In a sense, you just want appreciate all the freedom and all the goodness of God. And you using your experience with the enemy has intended for evil. God is using for good because you care so much about people and tell us about altered stories and how how your experiences shaped this ministry that God’s

spk_0:   32:19
started in you. You know I had a story inside of me that I needed to break free of, and I needed to tell someone, and I carried it around in me and it festered, and it caused all kinds of challenges in my life. Because of that, you know, I made choices that weren’t the best of choices because I wasn’t healed. I mean, relation ship traces, hard choices that resulted in things that weren’t good for my soul. I, sir, come to drinking a lot too numb myself a median, become an alcoholic. But I mean a drink to escape. I immersed myself in unhealthy patterns of success and ambition and all those things to try to allow myself to

spk_2:   33:13
work through. I don’t know, whatever the feelings

spk_0:   33:16
are in the insecurities and all those things. And I will tell you that until I was able to really tell my story until I was able to sit down with someone and share and have them really listen to say you need to do this and you need to do that and this is why you’re doing that. You know, that was when I started the process of healing myself, and it’s it was even affecting my physical health, you know, in terms of my anxiety and depression and all those things. And so Zad experience and the experience of being able then to take and immerse myself into ministry two other women that is going through difficult things in the church churches that I served in in the Bible. Studies were, you know, I was able to share, got it, did what it was doing. I mean, all those things made a huge difference. And so altered stories came about as a result of the experience that I had, where I felt like women needed to have someone that cared enough to be able to hear them and to give them a voice to help them through trauma and Brokenness and difficult circumstances so that they could then, sure, the great work that God did in their lives, or what he how he came in as a personal god to help them and brought in the right people in the right resource is and the kind nous that people need typically and also just the ability to share what they experienced are encountered, and then the healing power of Jesus Christ and So that was one of the reasons why I felt very strongly that too many women we’re coming up to me and they were just telling me their stories. I mean, you hear this a lot with storytellers, you know, I could be anywhere and a woman would, you know, in conversation. And she started telling me her story, her complete story. And I believe that God wanted me to experience. I mean, he he didn’t want me to go through that. But he wanted me to experience the healing, his healing power and to see that and to see the healthy way of healing so that I could help. And I could be the one, the beacon of hope, the inspiration, the one who would have the desire and the drive. And then seeing how my mom lived, you know, my mom’s Brokenness I was wanted her to heal through that process and really felt like if she could have told her story and shared it and, you know, really processed everything and understood. I think she would have probably dealt with things a lot better in her life. Um and so for me, it was a great freedom to be able to release my story. And there was quite a healing process that I went through through that. And I wanted other women have the freedom that they needed and for those that had been through hard things and to share to help other women that needed to hear their stories. And there are women I know out there that have probably come out of cults or maybe are in them, and they don’t realize what they’re again. They may at some point see things and God open their eyes, and then they’re gonna have to go through a period of of Decommissioning and trying to immerse themselves back into normalcy than everything. But I just felt my story was altered because I was a person that did. Now I want anything to do with Christianity in my experience. I mean, it is only by God’s grace and its mercy that I am here today leading a ministry, a healing ministry. But I’m gonna tell you what it is what God wanted me to do. And he he always does everything for good. For those who love the Lord, all things work together for good. For those that love the Lord. He will never make mistakes. They always takes what the enemy always purposes and for for not good, that good things. And God will turn it for his glory. And that’s what he is doing in my life.

spk_1:   38:23
Thank you, Michelle, for sharing your story. Well,

spk_2:   38:26
you’re welcome. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of pieces and parts, but I mean, it’s just great. Thank you. Your well,

spk_1:   38:35
good. Here is your ps some experts about our guest. Are you ready

spk_2:   38:42
for some questions? I am. Maybe I just someone your topics, any unique family tradition. We’d like

spk_0:   38:53
to get together on Christmas Eve and we always enjoy, you know, going out and looking at the lights. And we do a fondue meal.

spk_2:   39:06
Oh, fondue male. And must

spk_0:   39:08
we always try to do an Alpine type of feel? So having fondue and celebrating Christmas Eve is always something that we enjoy Is a family collectively been doing it for years and years least? Favorite chore. I do not like to mop the floors.

spk_2:   39:27
A superpower you wish you had. Oh, that wounds telepathy. What would you do with that Read minds? I think I was feeling that my Kurtz know, that could be good. That could be bad. Um, but it might help. Uh, sometimes it be kind of interesting superpower, wouldn’t it? You know, your favorite you time activity.

spk_0:   39:54
I like reading books and on the beach.

spk_2:   40:00
How that sounds. Sounds dreaming. Little sand in the pages. Yeah, I love to do that. You go to a quick meal, chick fil e. Thankfully, something special about you. People don’t know this is crazy, but I did get vision sometimes. All right. It’s almost like

spk_0:   40:22
faith to see things. And then, you know, I start walking in that I think it’s a gift that God has given me. I didn’t have a vision of Jesus when I was younger. That was before my mom got involved in that cold.

spk_2:   40:36
Does say in the end times young men and women see visions and dreams. Dreams? Yeah. Yeah, Well, it does say that in the word. All right. Most embarrassing moment. Oh, my gosh. This is crazy. I’ll never forget this. This is awful. I was out with my friends. We were at

spk_0:   40:58
a dance club, and I This was my early college years,

spk_2:   41:04
and I went across the dance floor. I walked across the dance work

spk_0:   41:10
and I went to sit down and did not realize that the back of my

spk_2:   41:12
dress was cut. Adios. I want to go across the middle. Booth. Yes, for was my dress caught up in the back of my hose? I still to this day I just cringe when I think of that, Yeah, that would be pretty prey numbers. It was really embarrassing on a more serious move when you were going through the recovery process. You We’ve already shared things that were helpful. What was not helpful,

spk_0:   41:49
people’s opinions. People need to understand why people are the way they do. I mean, it was hard enough to go through that experience, and I didn’t tell people all the ins and outs and those very difficult things that I shared with you come out and shared it just because I want people to understand the tremendous trauma and the depths of people when they’re not normal. And they’re thinking when they air broken themselves or have issues. Or I didn’t appreciate criticism of my parents. That doesn’t That doesn’t help.

spk_2:   42:26
How did your experience growing up shape how you parented your daughter.

spk_0:   42:30
Let me tell you what I did not want a parent. My daughter, like I was parented from a certainty. John. I tried to take the healthy pieces of how I was raised and brought up with my mom before she got into this very bad place. You know where it was? Just very protective. Protective, loving, doting, teaching my daughter confidence.

spk_2:   42:58
Those were things

spk_0:   42:59
my parents did before. I tried to take that. That the good and the best. My dad was a disciplinarian. He was always very just orderly. My daughter is incredibly orderly. She’s like off the charts, Orderly.

spk_2:   43:19
Tell me one thing you love about your hubby, your daughter and your whole sweet granddaughter. Us. Such wonderful questions. Mag my

spk_0:   43:29
happy. He is amazing, man. He is my biggest fan. He is a serving personality and he loves people and it’s very warm. He walks in humility. My daughter, she’s humble. She is an amazing mom. She is loving to She’s very independent, you know. She doesn’t need to be in the lights. She has a need. She’s very private. And the

spk_2:   44:00
baby grand Maybe. Well, we’ve submitted her to be the Gerber baby. Oh, for? Really? For riel. Oh, my goodness. Well, she is, darling. You hear this little thing anyway? She’s precious. She’s tough. She’s got baby biceps. Really? Her little baby biceps? Uh, yeah, this girl’s tough. She’s just a happy baby. She seems really happy, you know? Joyful baby. What’s your name? Are you Grandma? Great GT GT Amedy G. What is your favorite book of the Bible? And I like Proverbs. I think

spk_0:   44:46
it’s because there’s so much wisdom in it and my favorite scriptures come out of there. That’s Proverbs three. Its

spk_2:   44:55
trust in the Lord with all your heart

spk_0:   44:58
and lean. Not on your own understanding in all your way. Submit to him and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs has solid with a minute.

spk_2:   45:08
Which character or person in the Bible do you most admire or relate to? I think Deborah. I mean, I’ve looked at

spk_0:   45:19
Esther and looked at Ruth and, you know, all Mary and Mary Magdalene and Martha on, you know, I just kind of went back and didn’t agree. Have And but Deborah she wasa warrior. She was a leader. She had quite a spirit, and she waas kind of a profit there weren’t a lot of Debra’s out there.

spk_1:   45:43
This’ll wraps up another story of how our great God is at work in our hearts and in our world. I know that altered stories and Michele’s heart is to be able to help other women who are out there healing. This morning, when I woke up, I had this beautiful interaction with another cult survivor, a different cult. This dear lady. Lisa and I had a sweet time of fellowship, and it resulted in this response. Enjoy. And I trust this is going to help with your healing, too. A gift from Lisa. Well, today, God

spk_3:   46:20
performed a beautiful miracle, which was unexpected. When I met online the wonderful Meg Questioner, we started a conversation about the fact that I am a cult survivor. I was raised in a cult from the age of five until I was able to escape when I was 26 with my four year old daughter, and I just recently welcomed Jesus into my heart and life. Myself and Meg were conversing today for a few hours. I was actually writing a poem in middle of all of it, and I had the vision of Jesus carrying a lamb, and this is the poem called In Good Hands.

spk_4:   46:59
You only need Bring your authentic self your heart to the king’s table to the benevolent hands of others. Carefully climb in and nestle. They’re a fragile bird with a fractured wing. Get still always, Ah, holy song of hope to sing You will be in good hands, the hands of dear friends applauding and sometimes clapping back the hands of trusted neighbours giving the hands which correct, instruct and mold lovingly when you are a shapeless mass of wet clay and don’t know how to feel confused but cast upon the faithful. Potter’s wheel the hands which playfully juggle you your every emotion but never falter. Never drop any part of you the hands testicular eating wildly eager to make a point to your too often stubborn mind. And when even words no longer soothe, God lovingly sends a mime, you must understand that the exquisitely soft hand of a child’s and yours is the softest thing that exists softer even than a lover holding your face before he imparts a kiss. We are fashion by God’s own hand, the long fingered hands of pianists grateful graceful. The callused hands of the hard working labourer admirable the hands of athletes whom he has made a depth skillful, the sensitive hands of the M paths, sometimes balled up in frustrated fists wherever and whenever there is injustice. These days I finally see that I am held in the shepherds loving grip, safely grasping this wandering lost lamb. Yet his hands still open toe, let me graze free hands, which, when I inevitably stumble, still in always carry me. Yes, I am held now in the nail scarred hands which are my forever home. When I love others serve others, trust him and pray. I know I am never alone. I’m Lisa O Neill, and I wrote this on February 28

spk_1:   49:04
2020. Thank you, Lisa. And thanks to your family and friends, we can’t wait to help get your story out there soon to our listeners to find out more about this podcast, follow letters from home on instagram to hear more of Michelle’s God’s story, or to hear some other beautiful stories of women that have gone through so much. You confined Michelle at altered stories on Instagram and Facebook, and I will put those links in the show notes. And if you want to find out a little more about Lisa, I will also link her Blawg on my instagram and Facebook. Second, Corinthians 33 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, right? And not with ink, but with the spirit of the living god, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts.